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In JR High Class..... 
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 12:21 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Alberta, Canada
Post In JR High Class.....
Today in one 3rd year Jr High class, the Japanese English Teacher was teaching " the camera made in Japan"
Isn't this wrong??

Shouldn't it say ...

"the camera THAT is/was made in Japan"

Am I wrong??


Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:44 pm

Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:13 am
Posts: 3
I suppose you could ask:
"Did you buy the camera made in England or the camera made in Japan?"
A liitle unnatural but grammatically correct.

Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:54 pm
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Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:46 am
Posts: 2130
Location: Nagano, Japan
I heard a pretty good comments on this: judging something as grammatical but wrong is an inability to imagine a context of use

The teachers tend to take these things out of context and are trying to solidify the grammatical pattern in the students head. I think you are on solid ground AND I think the schools should teach full relative clauses before they teach the reduced relative clauses, BUT noone is going to listen to me. I think it's a lot easier to explain how we reduce the clause instead of trying to explain when we need to expand the clause.

I generally comment on things like that only when I'm asked or when it's really really wrong. Even then, the teachers don't always listen. I had a teacher who copied a mistake out of a book and gave the worksheet to the students. I showed her the mistake but she told me that's what the book said and just to read it that way. :oops:

Either way, yours probably isn't hurting anybody.

Interstingly though if you google the phrases you get
902 hits for " the camera made in Japan"
0__ hits for " the camera that was made in Japan"
0__ hits for " the camera that is made in Japan"

I was surprised by the results. I did the search again without the 'the' and the results were in favor of either of the full relative clauses, but just barely.

Build up! Be positive! Teach hard!

Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:12 pm
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 12:21 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Alberta, Canada
Thanks for your answers Mark and Juliette!

Well the teacher had said she got it out of last years textbook, so I checked for the sentence... it said "This camera was made in Japan" I guess she just ignored what it said because I showed it to her later on and she just shrugged her shoulders!

One of the students that studied in England for 6-7years had actually wrote all the sentences on the work sheet with " ...that was made..." so at least he knows! hahaha

Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:33 pm

Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:36 pm
Posts: 386
Location: Tohoku Japan
in my humble opinion

it is not a good stand alone English sentence

but it is a Noun phrase, ie it can be used as a noun

eg. as a subject or object in a sentence etc


The camrea made is Japan is better than the camrea made in America.

or I want to buy the camrea made in Japan

Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:27 am
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