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In JR High Class..... 
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 12:21 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Alberta, Canada
Post In JR High Class.....
Today in one 3rd year Jr High class, the Japanese English Teacher was teaching " the camera made in Japan"
Isn't this wrong??

Shouldn't it say ...

"the camera THAT is/was made in Japan"

Am I wrong??

ERIN


Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:44 pm
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MES-Member

Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:13 am
Posts: 3
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I suppose you could ask:
"Did you buy the camera made in England or the camera made in Japan?"
A liitle unnatural but grammatically correct.


Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:54 pm
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Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:46 am
Posts: 2130
Location: Nagano, Japan
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I heard a pretty good comments on this: judging something as grammatical but wrong is an inability to imagine a context of use

The teachers tend to take these things out of context and are trying to solidify the grammatical pattern in the students head. I think you are on solid ground AND I think the schools should teach full relative clauses before they teach the reduced relative clauses, BUT noone is going to listen to me. I think it's a lot easier to explain how we reduce the clause instead of trying to explain when we need to expand the clause.

I generally comment on things like that only when I'm asked or when it's really really wrong. Even then, the teachers don't always listen. I had a teacher who copied a mistake out of a book and gave the worksheet to the students. I showed her the mistake but she told me that's what the book said and just to read it that way. :oops:

Either way, yours probably isn't hurting anybody.

Interstingly though if you google the phrases you get
902 hits for " the camera made in Japan"
0__ hits for " the camera that was made in Japan"
0__ hits for " the camera that is made in Japan"

I was surprised by the results. I did the search again without the 'the' and the results were in favor of either of the full relative clauses, but just barely.

_________________
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Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:12 pm
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MES-Fanatic!

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 12:21 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Alberta, Canada
Post 
Thanks for your answers Mark and Juliette!

Well the teacher had said she got it out of last years textbook, so I checked for the sentence... it said "This camera was made in Japan" I guess she just ignored what it said because I showed it to her later on and she just shrugged her shoulders!

One of the students that studied in England for 6-7years had actually wrote all the sentences on the work sheet with " ...that was made..." so at least he knows! hahaha


Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:33 pm
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Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:36 pm
Posts: 386
Location: Tohoku Japan
Post 
in my humble opinion

it is not a good stand alone English sentence

but it is a Noun phrase, ie it can be used as a noun

eg. as a subject or object in a sentence etc

examples;

The camrea made is Japan is better than the camrea made in America.

or I want to buy the camrea made in Japan


Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:27 am
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